Opinions wanted on classic cars and smart phones

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 01/30/2019 at 13:31 • Filed to: None

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Few guys in the office are looking at BAT. 80s Ferrari is for sale and we started talking. Guy likes the car but my whole argument is that say you want to sell that car in 10-20 years - you will be hard pressed to find someone who knows how to drive a manual.

Youngens these days rather call for uber, go on about their day and not worry about their fancy car.

I am a bit of an older vintage and still think older cars are cool. manuals, carbu re ted. rumbly... that’s awesome to me. But unfortunately, I think the smart phones have killed the dating scene as we knew it and have killed the classic car market as well. Probably killed few other industries too... but i digress 

I hereby predict death to classic car market... or at least very deadly disease

Thoughts?

CB > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:41

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Wait, smartphones killed the car market? Are you sure it's not the fact that cars are ludicrously expensive?

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:44

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I grew up in the transition of the dating scene from IRL to Online, and I started doing a lot better when the change to online dating happened. I’m fine at making friends and being social. But most of my relationships have originated online.

As for cars, I think the enthusiast community will stay alive and well for quite some time to come. A ll the enthusiast blogs and youtube channels. Plenty of youngsters there, I  think... I’m not certain, I don’t have the stats and I don’t know many people’s ages of which I’m reading stuff.

PartyPooper2012 > CB 01/30/2019 at 13:44

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Back in the day when you wanted to go on a date, you spent the entire afternoon cleaning your car so you can pick up your date in a nice impressive car.

Now, you call an uber and arrive to TGIF without ever owning a car.

With Tinder and other apps, you swipe left or right and a date shows up in minutes.

I think my statement stands - smart phones killed car market. Also cars are crazy expensive. 

fintail > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:45

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Anything vintage and Ferrari will be seen as an investment, and will probably hold some value due to the speculative nature of the economy and the wealth chasm , although the amount of value can vary with time.

Lower priced collectibles might not fare well due to declining amounts of disposable income and some enthusiasts going to the car show in the sky , but then it becomes even more of a buyer’s market, so we win.

CB > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:46

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I mean, my girlfriend loves my car, I met her when she was staying with a mutual friend, and we've roadtripped tons of times? I don't get where this anecdotal evidence fight is going.

PartyPooper2012 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 01/30/2019 at 13:47

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Well, Sure. There are many enthusiasts, but as many as there are, there are even less of those who know how to drive a manual... and even less of those that know how to rebuild a carburetor.

It doesn’t make one any less of an enthusiast. I am just saying that to sell 80s ferrari with a manual will be a lot harder in 10-20 years due to a lack of people who will have use for it or know what to do with it

CaptDale - is secretly British > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:49

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That’s dumb. There are more than plenty of young people that enjoy manual and want classic cars, there are just very very far out of reach of you average 20-30 year old.

Nibby > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:49

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but with uber a car shows up in minutes too!

For Sweden > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:49

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I’m pretty sure that 10 years from now, you can find 50-year-old men who can drive a manual.

PartyPooper2012 > CB 01/30/2019 at 13:50

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Out of my friends... maybe 3 including myself know how to drive a manual. Your girlfriend might be an exception to the millennial stereotype assuming she is one  

For Sweden > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 01/30/2019 at 13:50

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Gonna need to see your Tinder profile Yowen

lone_liberal > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:50

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I think there will always be a market for a pretty Ferrari and don’t underestimate the manuals only clique. The apparent ego boost they get for doing something my 70 year old mom can do will drive them to seek out manual cars when new ones are no longer being produced. Plus, driving a manual Ferrari is fun, or at least I imagine it to be since I’ve never touched a Ferrari. What they do have to look out for is the maintenance cost for those cars.

Tripper > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:51

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“ Guy likes the car but my whole argument is that say you want to sell that car in 10-20 years - you will be hard pressed to find someone who knows how to drive a manual.”

I don’t think that will be case, particularly with anyone who is in the market for a vintage car. 

PartyPooper2012 > For Sweden 01/30/2019 at 13:51

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20 years? there will be a few less people of same vintage still

DipodomysDeserti > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:52

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I don’t think the people who buy cars on BaT are too interested in driving them.

PartyPooper2012 > Tripper 01/30/2019 at 13:52

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I hope I am wrong. 

For Sweden > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:52

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I don’t expect that the UN will start killing people over 50 until at least 25 years from now.

PartyPooper2012 > For Sweden 01/30/2019 at 13:53

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Damn. that’s harsh.

I was thinking diabetus and heart disease 

For Sweden > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:54

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Not proactive enough!

PartyPooper2012 > DipodomysDeserti 01/30/2019 at 13:54

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you’re probably right...

but also probably wrong. 50/50

PartyPooper2012 > For Sweden 01/30/2019 at 13:54

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need to step it up in adding more sugar to soda!

4 teaspoons of sugar in your coke, billy! Not 3

Alfalfa > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:55

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Using the Ford Model T as a case study, it would not seem like driveability has much of an effect on resale for an iconic car.

Future next gen S2000 owner > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:56

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People that want old cars will most likely know how to drive a manual.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > For Sweden 01/30/2019 at 13:56

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Renew! ReN ew! RENEW!

Nothing > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 13:57

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Given the average age of most of the people here, I think the classic car market will be just fine. Car enthusiasts are such a small subset of the automotive market that the market  will always exist, it’ll just shift much like it always has. 

In your previous example, the person that spent the day cleaning up their car for a date doesn’t sound like an enthusiast. It sounds like a horny kid.

PartyPooper2012 > Alfalfa 01/30/2019 at 13:57

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I don’t own one. Would have no use for it. My wife would not be impressed with it and would yell at me for having it. No matter how valuable it may be in 10 years.

PartyPooper2012 > Nothing 01/30/2019 at 13:59

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Horny kids grow up to be car enthusiasts because they grow up recognizing cool cars... cooler than theirs. 

CobraJoe > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:00

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I hereby predict de ath to classic car market... or at least very deadly disease

The classic car market won’t die, but it will fade. Chances are, there are still going to be people who pass on the knowledge of how to drive the “obsolete” tech, but it just won’t be common knowledge. As that knowledge becomes less common, manual equipped sports cars will become less desirable in the market.

It’s like early racing cars, they drive completely different to modern vehicles (often completely different to each other), yet there is a huge celebration every year where these cars are driven hard.

L ike these historical racers (or horses, for an alternate example), manual spor ts cars will become a hobby for the rich.

But maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe there will be a resurgence of popularity for actual driving .  Maybe people will value the skills needed to control a manual transmission.  Maybe a new electric motor that simulates internal combustion will become popular.  Who knows?  

WilliamsSW > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:04

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Death? No. But I think prices will ease somewhat.

Look at the prewar and brass era cars- there’s still a market for them, despite being drastically different to drive from even a 50s car. Fewer people are interested in them, but attrition of the cars has reduced availability to match.

I think what will happen is that prices will ease as the people who lusted after them  as new cars die off, then prices just level off.

PartyPooper2012 > CobraJoe 01/30/2019 at 14:04

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That’s the direction where I was going.

I doubt there will be resurgence. There will probably be a simulator in a tesla or something similar for you to play with while it pushes you along the road.  

Alfalfa > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:06

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I thought the argument was resale? What the hell are you on about now?

Tristan > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:10

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President Kamala Harris will outlaw internal combustion engines in a couple of years, so it’s a moot point.

CobraJoe > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:18

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I doubt there will be resurgence. There will probably be a simulator in a tesla or something similar for you to play with while it pushes you along the road.

That’s a difficult one to predict. I’m sure self driving cars will become common sometime in the future, but can everyone afford to own one? Will there be a future fear of a self driving car getting hacked and the occupants getting kidnapped/robbed/ hurt/killed? Will there be a fear of electro-terrorism by EMP? Will there be a want for a cheap/simple/fun experience in the future?

You could make the argu ment that bicycles should have been dead by now. There are transportation alternatives that require less effort (motorcycles/scooters) , are cheaper (public transportation) , and don’t require exposure to the weather (cars)... but bikes are still common.

The same goes for motorcycles, there are objectively better solutions for personal transportation, no matter what your metric is, but motorcycles and other “less than a car” alternatives (trikes, side by sides, atvs, etc) are gaining in popularity.

In both those cases, the bike or motorcycle is often used more as a toy than as everyday transportation, but something like a Miata or Cayman already fit in that niche too.  

My bird IS the word > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:20

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Most classic cars are actually automatic. Manuals regularly command higher prices from rarity and yet I still see manual cars swapped to automatics.

People still buy and drive model T fords. prices for crazy stuff will stabilize but the types of people who can’t be bothered to learn stick also can’t be bothered to own an old car with reliability problems.

atfsgeoff > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:21

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But unfortunately, I think the smart phones have killed the dating scene as we knew it and have killed the classic car market as well.

Smart phones didn’t kill the dating scene, militant feminism and #metoo did .

The classic car market won’t be killed by smart phones either, it will slowly fade due to generational drift in general.

2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:23

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B_dol > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:24

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I think the death of the pre-war classic car market is absolutely going to happen, however less ancient cars can still be used a veritable transportation means. I doubt we are going to see any shift soon.

Kim Jong - Healthy > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:25

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2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered > Kim Jong - Healthy 01/30/2019 at 14:28

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Beat ya too it by 2 minutes.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > For Sweden 01/30/2019 at 14:31

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Haha, Tinder according to my single friends is not that great anymore.

facw > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:33

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I mean, people who want a classic with a manual will learn to do that.

More to the point classics will be different. People generally want the cool cars from their youth, not their parents or grandparents. Obviously there will always be some interest, but the market for ‘50s and ‘60s cars is going to look more like the market for ‘20s and ‘30s cars as the boomers die off. Good versions may hold their price, but more marginal ones will be abused/scrapped/cannibalized because there won’t be enough interest to keep up prices.    

PartyPooper2012 > My bird IS the word 01/30/2019 at 14:44

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I wanted to cry when I read your statement that people yank out manuals and plug in automatics.

That practice should be outlawed. Death penalty for violators. 

TorqueToYield > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:48

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Horse racing (and riding and keeping in general) is still a popular hobby.

Do as many people today know how to ride a horse as in 1880 ? No.

Did horses suddenly disappear with the rise of the car? No.

Most people also aren’t using their horse to take a trip to the store anymore.

Could pretty much anybody learn the basics of horse riding in a couple hours, sure.

Horse shoe making industry sure died though.

To conclude, it’s probably a bad time to start a horse shoeing business.

Tripper > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 14:56

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Honestly I think sites like BaT help keep it alive. Ironically (or maybe not) there are dudes in my office on BaT looking at those same 80s Ferrari’ s .

Since I bought a car via BaT, It has ignited a lot of interest with people here, even people who I wouldn’t consider enthusiasts.

Not that the cars one owns makes he/she more of an enthusiast, but owning a classic is normally a few steps down the path of enthusiasm (it definitely was/is for me) . For instance, a classic is usually not an only car. They require more effort to find and buy, and more attention when you own one. If you’re down with that you’re way past owning a new car, a fast car, maybe even a car and a winter beater, or a car and a truck/motorcycle.

You’ve been out drinking, you’ll take that joint every time it’s passed to you...Now it’s time to break out the coke.

Tripper > DipodomysDeserti 01/30/2019 at 15:01

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I Agree, but am an exception to that rule

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > For Sweden 01/30/2019 at 15:24

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Also, lots of shirtless pics, works every time.

Nauraushaun > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 15:25

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Youngens call for an Uber, youngens don’t buy classic Ferraris. In 10-20 years there will be a market for the car, but it won’t be youngens.

Kim Jong - Healthy > 2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered 01/30/2019 at 15:27

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haha this is glorious. I’ll take the L on the timing, but the victory against this old man yelling at clouds 

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 15:32

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As a millennial who bought a manual vintage Ferrari, I disagree completely

bshappy > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 15:33

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First, I don’t believe this trend of young people not caring about cars exists. The demographic and cars and coffee and even this blog skews young. There are lots of young enthusiasts (myself included).

Second, you don’t need to know how to drive a stick to buy a car with a stick. It’s not too hard to learn.

PartyPooper2012 > bshappy 01/30/2019 at 15:49

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Do you want to be learning on a ferrari that cost between 50K and millions?

PartyPooper2012 > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 01/30/2019 at 15:50

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You win the out lier award

PartyPooper2012 > TorqueToYield 01/30/2019 at 15:55

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how hard could it be...

actually, I was in Czech republic last year. Some guy at a fair had a forge and an anvil and was banging a lot. I came to watch. He made damn horseshoes. Tiny ones for souvenirs but nevertheless. Horseshoe business isn’t completely dead.

I hope classic cars wont die too soon either. 

bshappy > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 15:55

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Millions? No. 50k? Sure why not.

PartyPooper2012 > bshappy 01/30/2019 at 16:05

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damn!

I was learning on an $1, 5 00 car.

You do you though

4kc > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 16:33

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I’m 26 and most of my friends don’t use dating apps outside of looking for drugs in new towns...

Most of them  want me to teach them to drive stick if they don’t already know, they just haven’t had an opportunity to learn. A couple of my friends have even bought manual cars after learning

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Nauraushaun 01/30/2019 at 16:35

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I do both of those things. Well, do one often, did the other once. haha

I’ve used both to get someone home from the airport though

OmerCarrothers333 > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 16:49

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I saw Magnum P.I. and thought of this.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 16:54

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The purchasing and hoarding of cars as speculation is a doomed bubble, soon to burst. The purchasing of reasonable vehicles that are fun to drive is done by enthusiasts, who are largely a different group than speculators. The thing to stop enthusiasts from driving cars, especially manual ones, will be lack of gas. Then we’ll BEV swap em.

bshappy > PartyPooper2012 01/30/2019 at 17:16

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Did you have a lot of trouble though? I’ve only driven 2 cars with manuals extensively so I’m not an expert . I learned on my FJ40 which is very forgiving and took about a day. It probably would have been even easier but I didn’t have anyone to teach me so I figured it out as I went. Then bought a ‘84 911 with the 915 tranny which took a little getting used to but was mostly drama free. I think either would have been fine for a first timer without too much wear and tear as long as they have at least some idea of what they’re doing (youtube vids or some such) .

Nauraushaun > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 01/30/2019 at 19:56

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You’re a god amongst men

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Nauraushaun 01/30/2019 at 20:23

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I’m Jr. management among Sr. staff, at best ;)

PartyPooper2012 > bshappy 01/31/2019 at 06:24

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When I was a kid my dad tried teaching me. What I learned was that he yelled a lot. What I didn’t learn was how to drive a manual.

When I turned 18, I got me an 1989 Acura Integra with manual. I played with it in a level driveway for about afternoon. Figured out the friction zone and took off. Uphill were some struggles but more gas and dropped clutches later, tires were smoking, face was grinning, thoughts in the head were - AGAIN! 

PartyPooper2012 > 4kc 01/31/2019 at 06:37

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I want to live where you live